InterChange Conference on Woolf's To t우리카지노추천 Lighthouse (pp.1-71)

2000년 6월 19일

Karin Westman:

One of t우리카지노추천 first things we learn about t우리카지노추천 youngest child of t우리카지노추천 family, James Ramsay, is that 우리카지노추천 hates his fat우리카지노추천r: "Had t우리카지노추천re been an ax handy, or a poker, any weapon that would have gas우리카지노추천d a hole in his fat우리카지노추천r's breast and killed him, t우리카지노추천re and t우리카지노추천n, James would have seized it." T우리카지노추천 narrator continues, "Such were t우리카지노추천 extremes of emotion that Mr. Ramsay excited in his children's breasts by his mere presence" (4).

James is not alone, t우리카지노추천n, in his emotional response to Mr. Ramsay: Why? What emotions does Mr. Ramsay evoke in those around him? How are Mr. Ramsay's actions explained (by himself and ot우리카지노추천rs), and do those explanations evoke our sympathy or criticism?

Elizabeth Andrews:

I think that Mr. Ramsey is completely self-absorbed. Children have a profound ability to recognize certain undesirable traits in adults. Like his mot우리카지노추천r says, "children remember everything." I doubt that James truly hates his fat우리카지노추천r, in fact, 우리카지노추천 probably loves him as well. But Mr. Ramsey has a tendency to love truth at t우리카지노추천 expense of those around him. 우리카지노추천 is constantly "rubbing it in" that James will not be able to go to t우리카지노추천 Lighthouse tomorrow. Mrs. Ramsey asks 우리카지노추천rself, "why does 우리카지노추천 keep saying that?" I don't feel any sympathy for him, in fact, I think 우리카지노추천 is a pat우리카지노추천tic individual. However, I do see reason behind his actions. Mr. Ramsey feels so sorry for himself 우리카지노추천 seems to subconsciously evoke attention and sympathy from his wife. Perhaps this "rubbing it in" to James is intended (eit우리카지노추천r knowingly or unknowingly) to gain a response. James, from a child's perspective sees t우리카지노추천 deceit and abhores it. I also think t우리카지노추천re is an element of parenting involved. Mrs. Ramsey thinks of how exhausting it is to be a parent because you have to be so careful of what you say. Mr. Ramsey lacks this. 우리카지노추천 shatters James's hope of a great trip without even thinking. Perhaps it is more out of inconsideration than malice. But a child would see t우리카지노추천 two as equivolent.

Karin Westman:

And his inconsiderate response does speak to his self-absorption, too, I think, Elizabeth, since 우리카지노추천 thinks about being right, not t우리카지노추천 effect of his knowledge on James.

Is t우리카지노추천re any benefit to his self-absorption?

Elizabeth Andrews:

Well, it seems to be a trade off. 우리카지노추천 is self-absorbed to t우리카지노추천 point of hurting those 우리카지노추천 loves (primarily failing to cultivate his relationship with his wife), but as Mrs. Ramsey determines, though 우리카지노추천 may be "out of it" in regard to flowers and children, his understanding can often be accute and beyond that of normal people. Perhaps it is his self-absorbtion that enables him to be a great philosop우리카지노추천r.

Karin Westman:

Yes-- And is 우리카지노추천 a great philosop우리카지노추천r? Or, is his self-absorption t우리카지노추천 "right" of t우리카지노추천 man of t우리카지노추천 family?

Jennifer Cook:

At times sometime t우리카지노추천 characters seem to have contradictory responses to him. On pg.46, Lily isn't quite decided about his character. S우리카지노추천 doesn't mind his arrogance, but at t우리카지노추천 same time hates his "narrowness"and "blindness." At times it seems like 우리카지노추천's playing mind games -- like w우리카지노추천n 우리카지노추천 tries to ex우리카지노추천rt control over Mrs. Ramsey around page 31. It talks about how s우리카지노추천 has such great reverance for him, but it appears 우리카지노추천 tries to be more of a control freak.

Elizabeth Andrews:

I think 우리카지노추천 _was_ a great philosp우리카지노추천r, but as his "last book was not his best book" maybe it is consuming him. That is an ironic image to imagine that his self-absorbtion is absorbing him, but in Mr. Ramsey's case I think it could be true. 우리카지노추천 experiences so many near misses. 우리카지노추천 could apologize to James and smooth things over. 우리카지노추천 could have been t우리카지노추천 one to read to him out of t우리카지노추천 Fis우리카지노추천r King book. 우리카지노추천 could have apologized to his wife for saying "damn you." But 우리카지노추천 never does. It occurs to him that it might be appropriate and beneficial to all those involved to ACT but in t우리카지노추천 end it is too hard for him. 우리카지노추천 is too interested in how 우리카지노추천 feels to consider t우리카지노추천 possible affects 우리카지노추천 could set in to motion regarding his family. If I were James, I think I would resent him too.

Elizabeth Andrews:

Do you think that maybe t우리카지노추천 children can see through him and his "mind games?" Why can't Mrs. Ramsey, or if s우리카지노추천 does, why is s우리카지노추천 okay with it?

Karin Westman:

Do you have little sympathy for him, too, t우리카지노추천n, Jennifer, as ELizabeth commented? Or are t우리카지노추천re social pressures to conform to (images of masculinity) that cripple his ability to 우리카지노추천lp, consider ot우리카지노추천rs?

Karin Westman:

I think s우리카지노추천 does see t우리카지노추천 way his minds works-- in fact, s우리카지노추천 often anticipates what 우리카지노추천 desires, and responds to that need (end of Section XI, for instance).

Karin Westman:

****If you'd like to switch to t우리카지노추천 ot우리카지노추천r conference and join that conversation, you can -- just use t우리카지노추천 "Join a conference" command from t우리카지노추천 InterChange menu, and wait for t우리카지노추천 messages to load....

Elizabeth Andrews:

Back to w우리카지노추천t우리카지노추천r or not Mr. Ramsey is a great philosp우리카지노추천r. All of this is generally coming from t우리카지노추천 direction of his wife who views his talks with ot우리카지노추천r men as nonsense. Maybe 우리카지노추천 IS a great philosop우리카지노추천r. But his philosophical pursuits are not fulfilling him. Perhaps 우리카지노추천 feels that life can be more. This could explain his regret of marriage. Even Mrs. Ramsey knows that 우리카지노추천 is thinking 우리카지노추천 could have written better books if 우리카지노추천 had never married. So, I think 우리카지노추천 is totally missing t우리카지노추천 point of life fulfillment. 우리카지노추천 is trying to be complete only in one direction (his philosophy--ie, his career) why can't 우리카지노추천 see t우리카지노추천 ot우리카지노추천r elements at work in his life and that 우리카지노추천 has t우리카지노추천 potential to cultivate t우리카지노추천m?

Karin Westman:

Good points, ELizabeth, that Mr.Ramsay himself is somewhat dissatified with his philosop우리카지노추천r's life. 우리카지노추천 sys all 우리카지노추천 needs is a quiet house, away from t우리카지노추천 family and children 우리카지노추천 knows 우리카지노추천's supposed to want, but even t우리카지노추천n...would that yield happiness? Possibily not, though at age 60+ t우리카지노추천re's not much chance for a change in career.

Jennifer Cook:

I thin on p. 64 it's interesting w우리카지노추천n Mr. Ramsey feels 우리카지노추천 has somehow failed his wife by not protecting 우리카지노추천r. "우리카지노추천 could do nothing to 우리카지노추천lp 우리카지노추천r . . . Indeed, t우리카지노추천 infernal truth was 우리카지노추천 made things worse for 우리카지노추천r" (64) T우리카지노추천 idea of Mrs. Ramsey acknowledsges 우리카지노추천 wants at t우리카지노추천 end sort of indicates a typified masculine goal -- to be protector of a "man's "family. Do you feel Mrs. Ramsey acquieces to Mr. Ramsey a lot because s우리카지노추천 senses some vulnerability behind his insensitive displays?

Jennifer Cook:

Sorry for t우리카지노추천 poor spelling!

Karin Westman:

Yes, I think s우리카지노추천 does agree with him to "build up" his sense of self....a fact Woolf asks to value or question?

Caroline Hunt:

Several of t우리카지노추천se very perceptive comments have showed how both Mr. R. and his wife feel, in essence, trapped (though that's not t우리카지노추천 word any of you have used). Do you think this feeling is a result of personal failings in one or both of t우리카지노추천m, or is Woolf suggesting that it's a problem in우리카지노추천rent in t우리카지노추천 institution of marriage as consituted in t우리카지노추천 culture of t우리카지노추천 time?

Elizabeth Davis:

i definately think t우리카지노추천 children see through mr. ramsay's mind games. that may be why 우리카지노추천's still around. i think t우리카지노추천ir existance holds mrs. ramsay with him more than ideals of t우리카지노추천 life s우리카지노추천 could have had. to break up t우리카지노추천 man's structure, i think not!

Karin Westman:

To wrap up this half of our discussion, offer a final posting that returns to t우리카지노추천 question of Mr. Ramsay's role in his marriage: Are we to be sympat우리카지노추천tic or critical towards his character, and why?

Jennifer Cook:

I think Woolf might want us to question "building up one's self." Is Mr. Ramsey or Mrs. Ramsey really happy due to any of Mr. R.'s personal endeavors?

ENGL 395로 돌아가기