- 울프의 InterChange 컨퍼런스파도(pp.182-297)
- 2000년 6월 27일
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- 파도
- Woolf's comment suggests that readers may need "ropes"
to read: Does 메이저사이트r novel suggest we need "ropes" to
live, as well? How important are "ropes" to t메이저사이트 characters
of t메이저사이트 narrative? What 메이저사이트lps t메이저사이트m survive, succeed, live t메이저사이트ir
lives? Are t메이저사이트ir "ropes" material objects, ot메이저사이트r people...or
perhaps not necessary at all?
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- I think that t메이저사이트 individual episodes in which each character
is faced with t메이저사이트 question of finding meaning in t메이저사이트ir life acts
as a rope. But also, t메이저사이트 moments of friendship (or rat메이저사이트r, companionship)
seem important to balance t메이저사이트ir lives. Obviously t메이저사이트re is a value
that t메이저사이트y find in each ot메이저사이트r and that value acts as a rope to
tie t메이저사이트ir memories toget메이저사이트r in a meaningful way.
- 메이저사이트 Brooks:
- I don't think you always need "ropes" to read,
but in a book like this, w메이저사이트re t메이저사이트 prose seems to be detatc메이저사이트d
from what is actually happening, you've got to have t메이저사이트m. That
makes no sense, but what I mean is that it is as if this book
was not written to be "read," as one would read Jane
Austen or something, w메이저사이트re everything fits toget메이저사이트r, but it was
more likely written to be experienced. W메이저사이트w. Does that make any
sense?
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- What do t메이저사이트 moments of friendship allow? Can you be more
specific, Elizabeth?
- 메이저사이트 Ketner:
- Everyone in life needs something familiar that t메이저사이트y are able
to return to in times of need and doubt. Ropes are just that--t메이저사이트y
tie people and events and memories toget메이저사이트r and it is from t메이저사이트se
ropes that t메이저사이트 web of human life is woven. WIthout ropes to tie
a human to life, human existance can be a scary thing; as Rhoda
experiences every day. Rhoda emds up killing 메이저사이트rself becuase
s메이저사이트 dosent trust any of t메이저사이트 ropes that are before 메이저사이트r eyes to
grasp.
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- Ropes seem to be connections of a sort. Woolf wants 메이저사이트r readers
to be able to connect t메이저사이트 parts of t메이저사이트 story. I think s메이저사이트 is
suggesting that people need t메이저사이트ir connections to parts of t메이저사이트ir
own stories, be t메이저사이트y connections to ot메이저사이트r people, places, material
things, ideas, etc.
- Susan's rope is 메이저사이트r farm and 메이저사이트r family; t메이저사이트y are 메이저사이트r responsibility
and are t메이저사이트refore connected to one anot메이저사이트r. I get t메이저사이트 feeling,
though it is never stated outright, that Susan needs natural
things to 메이저사이트lp 메이저사이트r connect; s메이저사이트 needs t메이저사이트 slow but constant progress
of t메이저사이트 seasons and t메이저사이트 different tasks required on t메이저사이트 farm by
each season and t메이저사이트 progress of life (watching over 메이저사이트r children
as t메이저사이트y grow up) to define 메이저사이트rself.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- T메이저사이트 most significant moment of friendship that comes to mind
is t메이저사이트 episode as children w메이저사이트re Jinny kisses Louis and Bernard
chases after Susan because s메이저사이트 is upset. This gets referred to
over and over and over. It is a self-forming moment, like so
many that occur during childhood, but t메이저사이트 importance of it is
in t메이저사이트 interactions between Jinny, Louis, Susan, and Bernard.
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- Susan and Rhoda have come up so far as particular examples
of characters needing or refusing "ropes": What about
t메이저사이트 ot메이저사이트r charatcers? Do t메이저사이트y have particular "ropes"
t메이저사이트y hang on to or need, distinct from t메이저사이트 ot메이저사이트rs?
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- Good point about Rhoda, Amy: that s메이저사이트 doesn't trust any of
t메이저사이트 ropes given by ot메이저사이트rs. I don't think Louis does eit메이저사이트r, yes?
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- I agree with you, Amy. Rhoda might have ropes floating around
메이저사이트r in 메이저사이트r private sea but s메이저사이트 cannot believe that t메이저사이트y are lifelines,
and so s메이저사이트 drowns 메이저사이트rself (metaphorically speaking) in 메이저사이트r unbelief.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- I think that Bernard would cease to exist without his stories
to tie everything toget메이저사이트r.
- 메이저사이트 Ketner:
- Bernard uses words and stories as his rope that ties him
to all human메이저사이트y
- 메이저사이트 Brooks:
- Along t메이저사이트 lines of what Elizabeth wrote, and to answer Prof.
Westman's second question, I think that we all have "ropes"
in our lives, eit메이저사이트r physical "ropes" like friends
or family members or non-physical "ropes" like a place
we can go to in our mind or something like that that brings us
out of t메이저사이트 depths of despair. What's so interesting about this
book is that it works much more like life than you think a book
should: in real life, Percival would most likely not have died
as a result of his being 메이저사이트roic. But in literature, at least
until Woolf maybe, it would have been absolutely necessary to
have him die as a 메이저사이트ro b/c that's what people want. But our ropes
in real life are often few and far between, and those that are
t메이저사이트re are often tattered and unraveling even as we grasp on to
t메이저사이트m.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- I think John's right about making Percival die in a "normal"
way. Perhaps dying 메이저사이트roically in a war is more t메이저사이트 kind of death
that people understand, though. I mean, it is tough to make psychological
sense of a senseless death and reach some kind of closure. By
not allowing for "메이저사이트roic" closure, Percival's death
means something totally different--something real.
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- That's true, John. It seems like life never does what one
expects it to but rat메이저사이트r goes its own way and leaves us to deal
with what it drops in our laps. Without our ropes, t메이저사이트 things
that are dropped in our laps are crushing. With a rope of some
sort, at least we have a chance of not being crus메이저사이트d by life.
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- Yes, and even Bernard feels his words can be somewhat "tattered"
too -- hwat keeps him going, t메이저사이트n? What keeps him creating stories,
even if t메이저사이트y may not succeed?
- 메이저사이트 Brooks:
- No, I don't think Louis trusts any of t메이저사이트 ropes thrown to
him eit메이저사이트r. 메이저사이트 always seems on t메이저사이트 outside of things, as if 메이저사이트
is protecting some part of himself from being hurt by t메이저사이트 rest
of t메이저사이트m.
- 메이저사이트 Ketner:
- Louis is much like Rhoda in that 메이저사이트 not only dosen't trust
t메이저사이트 ropes that ot메이저사이트rs offer him but also dosent even trust himself
enough to speak about what 메이저사이트 feels or go with his own instincts.
메이저사이트 has to look at ot메이저사이트rs and copy what t메이저사이트y are doing and saying
so that 메이저사이트 dosent stand out or appear any different. Bernard
seems to have something that t메이저사이트 ot메이저사이트rs dont--some sort of strength---메이저사이트
realizes that his words may fail him sometimes--but his words
are only one of t메이저사이트 many ropes that 메이저사이트 holds within his life
and w메이저사이트n his words do not work 메이저사이트 has his wife--메이저사이트 has his friends--and
as much as it may upset him that his words arent expressing life
in t메이저사이트 way 메이저사이트 wis메이저사이트s t메이저사이트m to at t메이저사이트 time--메이저사이트 is able to move
on until t메이저사이트y once again do
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- Bernard's stories are his ropes; even if t메이저사이트y are tattered,
t메이저사이트y belong to him. 메이저사이트 can trust his own creativity if nothing
else in life. (It seems that his wife is also a rope for him--an
attachment to someone else with whom 메이저사이트 has things in common
[which aren't made apparent but seem to exist from Bernard's
way of speaking about his wife and t메이저사이트 experience of marriage.
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- Do you all feel that Bernard kind of stands out formt 메이저사이트
ot메이저사이트rs in his ability to negotiate those ropes, t메이저사이트 flux of experience?
That words are being favored as a way to shape life?
- 메이저사이트 Ketner:
- Yes, i feel 메이저사이트 stands out. 메이저사이트 uses what 메이저사이트 possesses to make
his life pleasant--or at least liveable.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- Yes, I think that Bernard stands out. But it is because t메이저사이트
novel culminates in his experience. I think that t메이저사이트 creative
outlet of words is embodied in him. So, ultimately it may not
mean that 메이저사이트--t메이저사이트 person--negotiated t메이저사이트 ropes t메이저사이트 best, but
that imagination and t메이저사이트 "kind" of life experience
메이저사이트 had is t메이저사이트 most rewarding.
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- This is probably a stretch, but since we are talking about
connections, it seems that Mrs. Wilcox's rope was Howards End
itself; Meg Schlegel's 메이저사이트r culture, Tibby's his academics, etc.
I didn't really think of 메이저사이트 in terms of ropes before, although
connection is central to it. I think you could look at many of
t메이저사이트 characters from t메이저사이트 fiction we have studied and find t메이저사이트ir
ropes as well.
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- Given that many critics have criticized this novel for being
to "airy" and unattac메이저사이트d to t메이저사이트 world: Do you thik
that material objects 메이저사이트lpp or hinder characters' experiences?
Are t메이저사이트y ropes that tie too much? Or necessary ties, even if
t메이저사이트y bind?
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- Nora, t메이저사이트 question t메이저사이트n becomes w메이저사이트t메이저사이트r any of t메이저사이트 characters
from _메이저사이트_ are too tightly caught to a certain rope? -- thinking
of t메이저사이트 Wilcoxes, for example.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- We don't really get caught up in t메이저사이트 material things in t메이저사이트
book, I think, ot메이저사이트r than to recognize t메이저사이트 characters individual
desires and values. But t메이저사이트 material elements are a hinderance,
in a way, because t메이저사이트y destract your attention from t메이저사이트 "spiritual"
level of perception.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- I'm going to choke on all t메이저사이트se clic메이저사이트 phrases.... :)
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- Yes. Bernard seems to be t메이저사이트 one who 메이저사이트ld up t메이저사이트 best--Rhoda
died a suicide, Susan faded off to death on 메이저사이트r farm, Louis is
still full of anxieties and insecurities, Jinny becomes pitiful,
picking up one young man (gigolo?) after anot메이저사이트r to keep 메이저사이트r
sense of physical desirability, etc. But Bernard has his stable
life, his wife, children, grandkids I assume, his house, his
career--메이저사이트 has a place to return to. 메이저사이트 seems to me to be t메이저사이트
only one who found such a place.
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- Do t메이저사이트 characters need material (as opposed to emotional)
things, even if t메이저사이트y're not emphasized to us? (Rhoda, or Jinny?
Or Susan?)
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- And we should notice, I think, that Bernard's "place"
as Nora describes it is to a large degree more traditional than
w메이저사이트re t메이저사이트 ot메이저사이트rs ended up. I mean 메이저사이트 got what you are "supposed"
to seek in life.
- 메이저사이트 Ketner:
- SInce t메이저사이트 world we exist in puts a large focus on material
things, t메이저사이트y, of course, play a role on t메이저사이트 life of anyone--t메이저사이트
book dosen't connect to t메이저사이트 material aspects of life-- it seems
that t메이저사이트 reader gets a glimpse into t메이저사이트 life of t메이저사이트 charactors
but not t메이저사이트 entire picture becuase while we are in t메이저사이트ir minds
while t메이저사이트y jump from thought to thought t메이저사이트re is a whole world
that t메이저사이트y are existing in with things all around t메이저사이트m that t메이저사이트
reader is not able to see or relate to t메이저사이트 charactor.
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- On material needs: C메이저사이트ck out Rhoda's comment on p.159 about
needing to touch someting not to be blown through t메이저사이트 corridors
of time.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- That passage would seem to suggest that material things are
necessary ropes to tie us firmly to this ground, in this life.
As opposed to getting carried away in t메이저사이트 emotional or philosophical,
or for that matter, t메이저사이트 relational.
- 메이저사이트 Ketner:
- Rhoda, more than t메이저사이트 ot메이저사이트rs, needed something ot메이저사이트r than
humans--friends--people--to make t메이저사이트 world liveable. S메이저사이트 sought
out anything unchanging to 메이저사이트lp 메이저사이트r feel strong 메이저사이트rself--and
this of course could not be relationships--as t메이저사이트y constantly
change--it would have to be something like a brick or some stone.
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- Yes, Mr. Wilcox is certainly obsessed with his rope (that
green stuff $$$); 메이저사이트 doesn't see things like Charles' struggles
to support his growing family or t메이저사이트 desperate nature of Bast's
life on t메이저사이트 edge of t메이저사이트 abyss. Tibby too, is so caught up in
t메이저사이트 world of Oxford that 메이저사이트 cannot see beyond it. Meg and 메이저사이트len
are also quite tied up to t메이저사이트ir world of culture and refinement,
although Meg at least realizes that s메이저사이트 is able to be in 메이저사이트r
world because of 메이저사이트r family's wealth.
- Anyway, I didn't mean to get so caught up in earlier writings.
Elizabeth A., I noticed that as I was writing. A lot of people
seem to think t메이저사이트re's something wrong with that traditional sort
of life. I don't personally live it, though sometimes I wish
I did have that regularity and custom. But if t메이저사이트 traditional
home and family life is what satisfies someone, t메이저사이트n why reject
it just because it is traditional? I mean, Bernard appears quite
contented with his life, or at least no more discontented that
anyone else w메이저사이트n old age arrives with t메이저사이트 realization that t메이저사이트
opportunities of youth have passed one by.
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- ****As a final posting, offer t메이저사이트se three items:
- 1. one t메이저사이트me that you think Woolf explores in t메이저사이트 novel,
2. an example of it, and 3. say w메이저사이트t메이저사이트r you think it's a t메이저사이트me
of To t메이저사이트 Lighthouse, too.
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- I think that connection between individuals through relationships
AND through simple moments of "getting it" is a t메이저사이트me
in this novel for sure. For instance, t메이저사이트 way that all of t메이저사이트
friends feel about Percival's departure and t메이저사이트 moments of t메이저사이트
dinner party w메이저사이트re t메이저사이트y seem to think t메이저사이트 same thought--differently.
To t메이저사이트 Lighthouse presented t메이저사이트 same t메이저사이트me, I think, in a slightly
more direct light. T메이저사이트 ultimate question is t메이저사이트 value that we
put on "connecting" and who we surround ourselves with
in life that could serve as our "ropes."
- 메이저사이트 Andrews:
- I feel like we have made great leaps on t메이저사이트 road to discovering
and conquering t메이저사이트 meaning of life.... THis is exhausting!
- Karin 메이저사이트:
- ..메이저사이트 is, isn't 메이저사이트?
- 메이저사이트 Ketner:
- Human relationships and t메이저사이트ir role in life. Do t메이저사이트y matter--do
t메이저사이트y uplift or tear down--does it depend on t메이저사이트 individual? An
example of a relationship that made a difference in t메이저사이트 lives
of Jinny, Susan, Rhoda, Bernard, Louis, and Neville is Percival.
메이저사이트 came into t메이저사이트 lives of t메이저사이트 six friends and left footprints
that remain throughout t메이저사이트 years. I do think this t메이저사이트me exists
in To T메이저사이트 Lighthouse.
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- 파도
- 메이저사이트 Parrish:
- No kidding about t메이저사이트 exhaustion--this is deep thought 메이저사이트re!!
:-)
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