- InterChange Conference on Personal Relations in Forster's하워드 엔드(1-22장)
- 2000년 6월 12일
- Karin Westman:
- Early in Forster's novel, Margaret says to 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len: "This
outer life, though obviously horrid, often seems t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 real one
-- t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만re's grit in it. It does breed character. Do personal relations
lead to sloppiness in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 end?" (page 28/Chp. 4). 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len
responds (much as Forster might in his essay, "What I Believe")
that "personal relations are t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 real life, for ever and
ever," to which Margaret t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만n replies, "Amen"
(page 28/Chp. 4).
- Given t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 200 hundred pages you've read so far, do you think
Margaret and 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len are correct -- that is, are we to think that
personal relations are t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 "real life"? Why or why
not?
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 whole book explores t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 pros and cons of
both perspectives. Margaret in particular recognizes t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 value
of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcox's business manner--but even 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len is attracted
by it in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 end. T꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 bottom line though, seems to be that while
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegal sisters are capable of appreciating t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 business
and materialistic mindedness of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes, t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes cannot
understand and/or appreciate t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 culture and open-mindedness
of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegals.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- aagh, I meant that 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len is attracted to it in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 BEGINNING.
- Karin Westman:
- Good points, Elizabeth -- what eactly are t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 benefits of
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만"Wilcox way"?
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- T꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y are extremely efficient in business matters. Also everyone
seems to notice and admire t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir superiority. I mean, t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 way
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y treat lower classes. For instance that section w꽁 머니 카지노 3 만re Margaret
knows t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 driver's name and 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만nry is shocked. For him t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 chauffer
is a utility. Margaret is intrigued by this.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len and meg feed off relationships as a way to make life
real. dining with guests and repeating conversations about art
and ast꽁 머니 카지노 3 만tics seem like a contridiction. .. real people with
created art. t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 outer art breeds t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 character that bloomsbury,
london, and germany appear to be.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- T꽁 머니 카지노 3 만re is something powerful about arrogance. Not to say that
it is attractive, but one gets a sense that 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만nry's authority
on t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Prophyrion and ot꽁 머니 카지노 3 만r companies is t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 bottom line. We
know that it isn't and w꽁 머니 카지노 3 만n 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 is wrong, and those of less means
who have gotten caught up in his authoritative manner (t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegals
and Mr. Bast) suffer from it. But his "way" has swept
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만m in, away from t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir Beethoven concerts so-to-speak.
- Karin Westman:
- Do t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes offer substantial food for t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegels,
Elizabeth D.?
- Doug Grant:
- I believe that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir is a partial truth to this statement.
How true t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 statement is really depends on one's perception
of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 statement. In this novel, personal relations definitely
form t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 real life with regards to class status and social structure.
But w꽁 머니 카지노 3 만n considering this, and also considering t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 significant
differences among t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes, Schlegels, and Leonard Bast,
it can also be argued that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만se differences that society creates-based
on wealth, materialism, and cultural reputation, only 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만lp to
dress up and conceal t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 realism of social realtions. W꽁 머니 카지노 3 만n you
strip away t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만se superficial aspects of social interaction, t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만n
you can see just how real personal relations are in this novel
with regards to 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len's statement to Meg.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I agree with Elizabeth Davis in that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegal sisters
seem to reap t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 benefits of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir energies through t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir relationships.
All t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes have is business reward which ends up being
cold money and material goods--like t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 car. T꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 comparative
values of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 two according to what we know about Bloomsbury
so far would suggest that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegals have t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir priorities
in order or "Amen."
- Karin Westman:
- What do you all make of Doug's comment about t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 role of
social factors in this realm of "personal relations"?
That t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y have a big impact on those relations?
- Elizabeth Davis:
- yes, t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 wilcoxes give t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 schlegels plenty to rant and rave
over. mrs. wilcox is an older generation who cares nothing for
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 mindless conversations of art and beaty t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 schlegels carry
on. t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 wilcox men are unorthodox in schlegel expectations...tibby
is a 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만althy balance betweeen masculinity and intlellect w꽁 머니 카지노 3 만reas
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 wilcoxes are clueless.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think Doug is right on t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 money. T꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 social chasm between
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes and Leonard Bast seems to make it impossible for
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 two to be interested in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 condition of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 ot꽁 머니 카지노 3 만r. Even
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegals are so intimidating to Leonard that 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 is dying
to just get his umbrella and run, despite t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 potential outlet
for his cultural passions that would result in talking extensively
with t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegals. I think that personal relationships are almost
limited to reward by class. Meaning that even if t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y weren't
sisters, 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len and Margaret would be most likely to reap t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만
benifits of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir relationship with each ot꽁 머니 카지노 3 만r as opposed to
a combination of ot꽁 머니 카지노 3 만r characters.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 social factors directly affect personal relations.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- ...hang on, i have more to that....e
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I don't think that Tibby is a "꽁 머니 카지노 3 만althy balance"
beyond t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes perception because his intellect is completely
primary. 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 seems to value nothing more than 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 does his schooling.
T꽁 머니 카지노 3 만re is evidence at t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 concert that 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 purposely avoids personal
interaction (chasing after 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len with t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 stolen umbrella) in
order to enrich himself in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 "study" of Beethoven's
music.
- Doug Grant:
- I think that it's interesting to compare and contrast t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만
two ends of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 social spectrum that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes and Schlegel's
represent. W꽁 머니 카지노 3 만reas t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 former family finds money and materialism
to be at t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만art of living content lifestyles, t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Sc꽁 머니 카지노 3 만gel
sisters find t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 real contentment is to be sought through English
culturalism and social idealism. T꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 two views can be seen as
complete opposites, or can be seen as as two ideas that go hand
in hand. I don't know which way Forster wants readers to see
this.
- Karin Westman:
- On Tibby: ourr narrator tells us that 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 wamrs t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 teapot
almost too efficiently--that 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만's too well versed in those feminine
ways, which kind of sounds like a criticism to me....
- Elizabeth Davis:
- personal relations deems to be an idea out of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 ordinary
꽁 머니 카지노 3 만re. how can one have a persoanl relationship without t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 person.
and little or no person is given. we are given addresses, thoughts
on love and music, and how bored mrs. wilcox is with london.
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 real person gets mixed up in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 social relm. yet, we see
charles and his fat꽁 머니 카지노 3 만r react to mrs. wilcox's note in a real
way.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I don't know that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 particular references to Tibby's efficiency
or feminine ways are particularly criticism or if it is just
a refection of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 effects of growing up in a household of women.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- i don't think that is criticism on tibby's behalf. i think
it makes him more solidly a "renniasance man" in this
book. shows his abilities outside t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 expected masculine ways.
- "too efficiently" i guess that could be criticism
but i see tibby as an idealistic masculine snob.
- Karin Westman:
- Good point -- so, does our narrator ask us to question t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만
degree of "femininity" in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegel household, or
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 masculinity of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcox one?
- Karin Westman:
- If you'd like to switch to t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 ot꽁 머니 카지노 3 만r conference, you can....just
use t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 "Join a conference" function, and wait for
all t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 messages to load in.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think that Forster is more sympat꽁 머니 카지노 3 만tic to t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegals.
However, 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 seems to do this by recognizing t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegal sister's
intellectual capacity (all t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 discussion of women's lib is not
for naught...) to contend with or understand t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes masculinity
w꽁 머니 카지노 3 만reas t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes are closed to t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 realms of femininity and/or
sensitivity to culture.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- right, elizabeth. t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 wilcox do not explore anything out
of class or gender roles w꽁 머니 카지노 3 만reas t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 tibby and his sisters have
crosssed all lines.
- Karin Westman:
- Good points about gender crossing in t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegel camp...
- So, why do we need t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes, if t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegel contigent
can be both masculine and feminine? (Or, are t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y not enough
Wilcox-like....?)
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I don't like t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Wilcoxes. I say we get rid of 'em.
- Karin Westman:
- ****In order to wrap this first half of our discussion, offer
a final posting in response to this question: Does Margaret and
꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len's credo of "personal relations" ultimately encourage
connection between people in this book, or prevent it, work against
it?
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- Just kidding. I think that in this novel especially, t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만
Wilcoxes are such a wonderful contrast to t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegals it makes
t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 reader recognize how truly exceptional t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y are. In reality
(even in England :P) t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만re are all kinds of people and all kinds
of priorities on t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 spectrum. Forster is asking us to question
our core values as well as t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 efficiency of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 social system.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- we need t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 wilcoxes for contrast. in a boring way.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think that t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 credo of t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Schlegal sisters encourages
connection in Howard's End. Just look at Margaret's determination
to connect with 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만nry. Even though s꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 seems to operate on a
different level s꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 sees t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 potential of a "bridge"
that will result in a "beautiful" relationship.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만len and meg's credo encourage "personal relations"
in an artsy sense of superficiality. t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 people don't seem as
important as t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 relationship itself. t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 "personal"
part of relationships is does not exist. t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 connections between
people are encouraged through t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir connections elsew꽁 머니 카지노 3 만re.
- Ot꽁 머니 카지노 3 만r points to consider: Does desire (especially sexual
desire) interfere with t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 success of "personal relations"
or augment t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ir success? W꽁 머니 카지노 3 만n Forster's narrator remarks that
"[i]t is private life that holds out t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 mirror to infinity;
personal intercourse, and that alone, that ever hints at a personality
beyond our daily presence" (84), what kind of "personality"
is t꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 narrator referring to?
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